House Dagoth, the Sixth House, Shadow House or Sleeping House, was one of the Great Houses of Morrowind. Ruled by Dagoth Ur, 'Voryn Dagoth,' the crest of the house is an insect. Little is known of the beliefs of House Dagoth. In terms of tradition, it is House custom for the Dagoths to allow a. Greath House Dagoth Mod by Mad God So I really don't want to play the main quest working for the emperor because I play as an anti imperial dunmer. So I ran into this mod and heard it has superior writing compared to the other sixth house mod.

Here is one man's opinion about two generations of Elder Scrolls games.I reinstalled Oblivion the other day to try a lauded 'balancing' mod and was a little underwhelmed, not just with the mod but with the game itself. I couldn't muster enough willpower to stare at Uriel Septim's saggy moon pie face, much less remain interested in running a third character through a kajillion Oblivion gates. I think the magic is gone.This got me all misty-eyed and nostalgic, so I also reinstalled Morrowind GOTY along with Better Heads, Better Bodies, Better Clothes, Morrowind Graphics Extender, Real Signposts, and some gigantic high resolution texture pack. And you know, I've been playing Morrowind four hours a day for the last three days while Oblivion sulks in the corner, forgotten.Morrowind has some situational advantages that Oblivion will probably gain in time, of course. It's been out for years and has an unparalleled mod base. Also, it has two official expansions to augment its vast out-of-box content.But there are some things Morrowind has that Oblivion doesn't, and most of these are related to imagination.Variety of fauna: When I'm out exploring, why would I want to fight bears and mountain lions when I can fight Netches, Guar, Alit, Kwama, and Cliff Racers (okay, not Cliff Racers)? I like Morrowind's hostile roaming creatures much better than those in Oblivion.

Fighting minotaurs, will-o-the-wisps, trolls, spriggans, and other creatures from Earthen mythology (as opposed to Tamrielan) kills the immersion for me. Cyrodiil is supposed to be a world completely different than my own, so why am I hacking away at an ancient Grecian feral beast?Plot: Sorry Patrick Stewart and Sean Bean, your Elizabethan poetic waxing can't polish Oblivion's turd of a plot. If I'm the one who has to retrieve Tiber Septim's armor, cut down waves of Daedra and Dremora to close dozens of Oblivion Gates, and assassinate the leader of the Mythic Dawn cult, I damn well better be the guy who gets the glory in the end. Who gets to turn into a big dragon? It's Martin, whose most important job is to stand in Cloud Ruler Temple and wait around for me to bring him artifacts. When I had finished Oblivion's main quest, I felt like I did so much and had so little to show for it, other than a suit of armor my character couldn't use.In Morrowind, my portent is building from the moment I get off the boat. You mean the Emperor himself ordered that I be released?

Whatever for? This isn't some happy accident, like in Oblivion where you just happen to be in the same cell as the secret escape hatch and they tack on something about Uriel Septim recognizing you from a dream.In Morrowind the political climate was well established and tense. I felt like I really had to prove myself to all the Great Houses and Ashlander tribes, and I the necessity and urgency of doing so. I knew like all my trekking around Vvardenfell had a purpose; I was saving the world, not helping someone else save the world.

I was responsible for the downfall of Dagoth Ur and the end of the ash storms. There were volumes of prophecy written to foretell my return. I am Nerevar Incarnate.But think about it.

In Oblivion you don't even bother Mehrunes Dagon. All those gates you spent hours closing don't mean jack, because he still ends up stomping the Imperial City no matter what. And who ultimately conquers him? You know who. Sorry.Bottom line, I'm not the one who lost the Amulet of Kings, so why punish me by making me play Oblivion?Art/Design: In Morrowind, every Great House had a distinctive geographic orientation and a distinctive architecture.

Ashlander camps really felt like they might blow away in the blight storms at any second. Even the dungeons had variety: bandit caves, mines, Dwemer ruins, ancestral tombs, Daedric shrines, and Sixth House bases, each with a unique color pallette and unique devices and enemies. There were even subtle blends and variations. How about a Daedric shrine almost completely submerged in water?

Or an excavation that broke through into a long forgotten Dwemer stronghold? Oodles of atmosphere, too. The humming of the arcane Dwarven machines, the Daedric statues, complete with Dremora that materialized to defend offerings against would-be plunderers. The cacophonous shrieks and unnerving ambient whispers echoing inside the Sixth House bases.In Oblivion you have random caves, Ayleid ruins, and abandoned forts. I guess Oblivion gates count too.

My biggest complaint is that these places don't have much atmosphere. If you've seen one cave/ruin/fort/gate, you've seen them all, unless it's part of a quest in which case it looks like some care went into it.The Ayleid ruins are supposed to be ancient cities.

So where's all the stuff that makes a city a city? Instead of tables, chairs, machinery, and observatories, we get death traps.

Why did the Ayleids put spike pits and gas chambers everywhere? And what about those razor-sharp spike grids that slide down corridors? Don't they know it's dangerous for children?Oblivion gates are the pits. After I realized there wasn't much of anything to set one apart from the next, I started popping in to pick some flowers and immediately leaving.

The few that are part of the main quest have unique features and minor puzzles that make them worthwhile. But other than that, there's no reason to zone in. Sigil stones too often unbalance the gameplay, and I don't have to spend two hours in Monochromatic Red Hell to get new weapons and armor; I can get those off any common bandit. Which reminds me.Itemization: If you want a good unique weapon or item in Oblivion, you need to either do a quest or level up to 25, when worthwhile uniques become a part of the random loot tables for enemies and chests. In Morrowind, most of the amazing loot comes from exploration.

You have an incentive to trek out to the farthest island from the mainland or to the top of Vvardenfell's highest peak, because you might discover an item you literally can't find anywhere else. Marara's Ring. The Fists of Randagulf. Auriel's Bow. Why bother exploring in Oblivion? I can get the same Daedric Claymore from a bandit cave right outside the Imperial City as I can from the body of a Vampire in a fort on the Niben Bay.

I can get the same Amulet of Blades from a chest in a tiny Ayleid ruin as I can from the most powerful Dremora guarding a Sigil Stone. My incentive to independently explore this big beautiful world is gone.There are plenty of improvements in Oblivion, and plenty of things it gets right that Morrowind missed. The perk system for skills is great, and it gives further incentive to develop the skills your character values the most. More voice acting means less reading, which means my eyes don't get tired as quickly. Alchemy is much better realized, especially with the advent of poisons. And of course Oblivion's graphics and scripting are a vast improvement, although Morrowind has aged gracefully and can be reinforced with updated textures and custom shader effects and scripts thanks to its strong modding community. With the Shivering Isles expansion, I am sure Oblivion will become a better, fuller game, and I will probably buy it and take it for a spin.I know I haven't covered every aspect of both games, and I would welcome conversation about their similarities and differences, and things I am sure to have missed.

Has anyone else had an experience similar to mine, enjoying Morrowind even more after playing Oblivion? I am sure there are just as many who would vehemently disagree with all the points I have raised.

So let's hear about it. I've played hundreds of hours of Morrowind and the expansions and just can't seem to get into it anymore.Fighting in Oblivion is more interesting, but Morrowind did have more of an 'awe' factor about it that Oblivion doesn't really capture(what I mean by that was the way Morrowind kept you exploring just to see what was over that next mountain, because you just knew it was going to be something interesting - I never really get that vibe from Oblivion, much as I enjoy it).Both are fun though, and certainly worth the price of admission. I swear this entire post could be summed up as 'you know, Morrowind in the Oblivion engine would be TOTALLY BAD ASS.' Morrowind is, I'm sorry, ugly. Oblivion had graphical splendor, though I was more than slightly disappointed it was generic high fantasy graphical splendor. On the flipside, Morrowind had more hand-made and less randomly-generated content, and that helped a lot.

Give me something with an engine like Oblivion's with better art direction and less in the way of randomly generated content (the problem with randomly generated content is it's very limited; sure you can have near-infinite permutations, but they'll be infinitely boring permutations because the variance between them is so limited.) and we're talking a good game.just finish Fallout 3 first. And then take another six months to add depth to it, just in case. Originally posted by wemetintheair:The Ayleid ruins are supposed to be ancient cities. So where's all the stuff that makes a city a city? Instead of tables, chairs, machinery, and observatories, we get death traps.

Why did the Ayleids put spike pits and gas chambers everywhere? And what about those razor-sharp spike grids that slide down corridors? Don't they know it's dangerous for children?Children? What children?

(Everybody knows 'children' don't really exist.)Otherwise, yeah-if I could have Morrowind with Oblivion's engine and combat system, I'd be thrilled. Major Kudos.I just want to reiterate and give a to one major complaint I have with Oblivion and you basically hit it: art and design.With the exception of Ayleid ruins, Oblivion's cities and dungeons look boring.

Morrowind had very creative and interesting locations throughout. As you said, Oblivion is (sadly) more Tolkienesque.On the other hand, most outdoor locations in Oblivion are jaw-dropping.Oh, and also, you obviously haven't spent enough time playing Oblivion with OOO installed. Many of your issues (like the loot tables and wildlife AI) have been drastically overhauled. Lots of uniques have been placed, etc. Give it another go round and I think you'll be impressed. I recently bought and installed the Morrowind GOTY edition, and have been itching to play it, though the 70+ hours I've put into my current Oblivion character is compelling me to actually win the damn game before starting something else.But yeah, from what I could gather, Morrowind has a setting and story that looks far more interesting, for me. I think the devs hamstringed Oblivion with their inane 'every NPC must have voice acting' requirement, which as mentioned above, really doesn't fit well in a sandbox RPG.

Want to flesh out some more of the townsfolk, add some quests involving them? Too bad, our voice actors already talked themselves hoarse. Wish to expand the main quest storyline? Oh hell no, we already blew a quarter of the budget on Sean Bean and Patrick Stewart, it's good enough. Originally posted by Scero:necessarily scope creep either, just the sheer size of Morrowind would be overwhelming to remake with Oblivion's engine. It would certainly be incredible, though.Morrowind is actually a much smaller environment than Cyrodiil. In total area Cyrodiil is several times larger (sixteen square miles total? Great swiss railway journeys.

Morrowind was no more than half that, maybe even a quarter) It's deceptive because your speed of travel on foot is faster in Oblivion, the fast-travel system, but also the fog distance. Morrowind's fog distance was pretty close in compared to the ludicrous draw distance in Oblivion, so things 'felt' farther away because you were walking slower and couldn't see them 5 miles off.There is at least one Morrowind-in-Oblivion mod project. I hope it gets somewhere, but I'm not convinced it'll ever release.

It's an awfully big undertaking.Also, Semi: According to TES lore (of which I know very little) Cyrodiil is not supposed to be high fantasy plains. Prior to TES4, it was known as equatorial rainforest and jungle. I do have the feeling that trying to render any form of rainforest and jungle given how. Shall we say, demanding Oblivion is, would've meant the quick death of any computer short of BFG10K's. Also, Semi: According to TES lore (of which I know very little) Cyrodiil is not supposed to be high fantasy plains.

Prior to TES4, it was known as equatorial rainforest and jungle. I do have the feeling that trying to render any form of rainforest and jungle given how. Shall we say, demanding Oblivion is, would've meant the quick death of any computer short of BFG10K's.You managed to be informative and insult BFG10K. A- View image here.

Thanks for reminding me, I was also going to bitch about Oblivion's travel system doing its part to discourage exploration. At least in Morrowind I had to walk/run myself to a Mage's Guild, or Propylon Index, or boat, or Silt Strider if I wanted to expedite my journey. I think the Oblivion fast travel system is too tempting a way to eliminate exploration and strategy and encourages loot 'farming.'

In Morrowind you actually had to travel from dungeons to merchants and back with your stash, thus the player had to consider time and space as consequential variables in the world. I think that's pretty important for the open ended gaming paradigm, and I'm kind of surprised Bethesda screwed the pooch so rough on it. Great post.I have to say though, that the Elder Scrolls series seems to have a cycle that just cannot be broken in respect to some areas.In Daggerfall NPCs had a sort of schedule (similar to Oblivion's) and they wouldn't always be at the same place all day long they'd move around and appear to do different things. Moving to Morrowind NPCs were just static additions to the environment that happened to be able to talk and give quests and such. In Oblivion we have a return to the dynamic NPC who 'lives' their life, moves around and does different things at different times.It seems area design and complexity goes through the same permutation of less unique (through the randomly generated design of Daggerfall), to more unique and creative design of Morrowind, and back to the Oblivion 'every area is the same' just a bit different than the others. This is probably what I would agree with you the most on.I didn't have much fun with the ruins or Oblivion gates once I realized that they were essentially the same as all the rest, just with different names. With respect to the Ayleid ruins, exploring them also didn't give the sense that we were delving into an ancient area full of Mysteries and Wonders like the Dwemer ruins had.

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Every time I turned a corner in one of the Dwemer ruins I thought I'd run into a new machine or item that would suddenly explain everything about who they were and what happened to them. The Ayleid ruins before long became nothing more than a hunt for Welkynd and Varla stones.The one area I can see a marked trend downward between the last three ES games is the variety of animal/creature life. Daggerfall had an extremely varied creature list that got reduced down in Morrowind and even then was a huge variety of creatures to fight. Oblivion really is just a big bear fight from one end of the forest to another, and it disappoints me. I really got tired of fighting bears and leopards and started hoping for more. The occasional spriggan and Oblivion creature didn't do enough to challenge the idea that in all of Cyrodil the only native animal are those damn bears.All of that said (and it's now that I just realize how much I've written) Oblivion will still get played by me.

Even when I get a new PC and Morrowind gets back in the rotation, Oblivion still is a game I enjoy. All of these caveats add up to only a small detraction of my enjoyment and user mods can make up for them in the long run. It's not a perfect game, but then again, what is? Originally posted by krimhorn:In Daggerfall NPCs had a sort of schedule (similar to Oblivion's) and they wouldn't always be at the same place all day long they'd move around and appear to do different things.

Moving to Morrowind NPCs were just static additions to the environment that happened to be able to talk and give quests and such.I think your description of Morrowind's NPCs are far more accurate for Daggerfall's then the one you gave it. You either had the obviously pre-rendered sprites that wandered towns hundreds at a time and were completely useless except for directions, or you had the important but completely static and unanimated sprites like shopkeepers who's dynamic schedule consisted of 'standing there' during business hours, and 'not existing anywhere in the game world' when the shop was closed.

There was no 'NPC sleeping in bed art' anywhere in that game. The Brotherhood is probably the most fun I've had on a sidequest in my entire RPG playing life.+ f'n +They were so great. And the way I got 'inducted' into the Brotherhood was memorable too.Overall though, I liked Morrowind more, as the OP says, you feel like you're actually someone.I never played the main quest in Oblivion, but I could see the generic deep-voiced, evil baddy with tentacles for a face being the final boss.While Dagoth Ur was, well, unexpected. When you enter the final area in the Red Mountain and hear him talk to you calmly and in a normal voice and then tacks on 'And bring Wraithguard, I have need of it.' Was awesome IMO. Boots of blinding speed + magic resistance = quick Morrowind game.

My main beef with oblivion is that there was little incentive to explore all of the dungeons that the developers made. In Morrowind, I could task it upon myself to collect every piece of daedric armor in the game and stick it into my house. Levitation in Morrowind adds another dimension that Oblivion is lacking. Scarcity made powerful items much more valuable.As for the main plots, I didn't really like either, mostly running around finding people.

However, slaughtering the house of Dagoth Ur was much more interesting than the silly Deadra cult.An element that is sourly lacking from all of these sandbox games is in game creativity. If you are a powerful mage then why can't you create an army of deadra, skeletons, etc? If you are a great enchanter then why can't you experiment and create bizarre enchantments? Why couldn't you become a dwemer scholar and master technology?There is always 3 options: fireballs, whack things, or shoot things. You can't ever hire mercenaries to do it for you, and you cannot ever create your own store to sell off the metric tons of loot you acquire. Hell, you can't even ask an NPC if they are having a nice day or even dig a bloody hole in the ground.Sandbox is a misnomer for this style of game. Box is much more appropriate.

You're in a box, you can move around in the box, and maybe the developers left a few toys in the box for you to play with. Sand would allow you to actually shape the world you are in.I'm not saying that every game needs more player freedom, but if you don't really have compelling plot, combat, leveling, items, NPC interactions, etc then you should really allow the player to do something interesting with their time. Morrowind at least had rewarding items, so I played the game for a while longer after beating most plots(main+ guilds etc.).

I dropped Oblivion like a sack of potatoes after finishing the main quest and a few guilds. Originally posted by pToast:I know several people (myself included) that tried to get into Morrowind, couldn't, but then had lots of fun playing Oblivion.This describes me to a tee. I think I like Oblivion more BECAUSE of it's familiarity (Minotaurs instead of Guar.

What's a Guar?). It's more like playing in Medieval Europe than a distant planet. It appeals to me.

I'm not saying Morrowind is bad, just not for me.Nothin' like fantasy to make you feel at home.Maybe I was already sick of the game when I did it, but I thought the Dark Brotherhood quests were just a poor attempt at making your character Garrett for a day. Originally posted by krimhorn:In Daggerfall NPCs had a sort of schedule (similar to Oblivion's) and they wouldn't always be at the same place all day long they'd move around and appear to do different things.

Moving to Morrowind NPCs were just static additions to the environment that happened to be able to talk and give quests and such.I think your description of Morrowind's NPCs are far more accurate for Daggerfall's then the one you gave it. You either had the obviously pre-rendered sprites that wandered towns hundreds at a time and were completely useless except for directions, or you had the important but completely static and unanimated sprites like shopkeepers who's dynamic schedule consisted of 'standing there' during business hours, and 'not existing anywhere in the game world' when the shop was closed. There was no 'NPC sleeping in bed art' anywhere in that game.That's probably true, it's been a long time since I've played Daggerfall, and then I only had access to it sporadically on a friend's computer.

But there was an attempt, even given computing limitations at the time, to have NPCs that were more than just in one place all the time. While Morrowind did have sleeping NPCs and the occasional one that appeared in different places - those were usually placed there as a plot-triggered movement. Evidence shows that I played Morrowind over a much longer span of time than I played Oblivion.I got further in Oblivion's main quest. The game seemed to be more linear. I never felt like exploring.I'm also in the camp of 'Dark Brotherhood' quests were great.So what this all means is that.that I like Morrowind more. There I said it.

Once you install some texture packs and character enhancements I think Morrowind still looks good. Certainly good enough that the looks don't effect my enjoyment in the game (then again I think Quake 2 looks great too). I'm in the Oblivion camp but I expect it's more from my bad experiences in Morrowind rather than greatness in Oblivion.I played Morrowing 'back in the day' on my PC rig and fussed with patches, settings, lag, and just general dissatisfaction. In fact Morrowind was one of the last PC games I played before I just plain switched to Macs and consoles (Xbox and 360).Oblivion I play on my 360 in 1080i on my 60' set with surround sound blaring all around me. It's totally awesome. No patches, no mess, no fuss. Just fun.I also don't consider the Oblivion main quest much of a pain.

You can pick it up and drop it at any time. I've barely touched the main quest, having so much fun just exploring and doing the faction quests. I just completed the Dark Brotherhood line last weekend. Rocked.So put me down for Oblivion. I don't know what it is, but it has something that engages me in the world in a way that the wide-open aspect of Morrowind failed to do.

My first Civ 5 mod! Adds the Sixth House from The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind as a civilization, with Dagoth Ur as its leader.Unique Ability: 'Divine Disease'Blight spreads from cities to unimproved tiles automatically. Melee units can spread Blight.Unique Unit: 'Dreamer'Replaces the Warrior. Can enter enemy territory without Open Borders or a Declaration of War.Unique Improvement: 'Blight'Provides +2 Food and +1 Production for Sixth House players, but -2 Food and -1 Production for other players.Dagoth Ur art by ielay -Dreamer art by shagan-fury -Sixth House icon by priestmorokei -Cover image by Youhey.